Small Press Book Fair spat gets ugly
Last December, Quillblog noted a spat between Toronto Small Press Book Fair organizers Myna Wallin and Halli Villegas and one of the event’s founders, poet Stuart Ross. The controversy stemmed from comments posted by Ross on his blog criticizing Wallin and Villegas for poorly promoting the November event. The debate was then continued in various online forums, becoming increasingly personal and nasty.
According to a recent article on the website Reading Toronto, the disagreement has taken an even uglier turn, with Villegas and Wallin threatening legal action against Ross.
Wallin and Villegas allege that Ross has engaged in a campaign of “defamation of character and interference in our professional lives.” They also claim that Ross has conducted a “two-month campaign of personal and public harassment and defamation” and assert that he has done so “with clear intent to ruin our professional reputations.”
This information has come to light in a singularly unusual manner: it was made public by Wallin and Villegas themselves in a mass email to the Lexiconjury discussion group. Inevitably, their email has subsequently achieved a far wider circulation by being forwarded by various members of the group to parties beyond it.
The article is exhaustive and fleshes out some of the issues at play regarding free speech and community-building. And it illustrates how a whole lot of people are in a tizzy over the affair (just read the comments sections here and here). This bit, toward the end of the article, gives you a good sense of the escalating stakes in the debate:
In the absence of any substantiation of these very serious allegations, it is unclear how much Wallin and Villegas are demanding Ross recant, and how much control they now seek to dictate not only over his involvement in small press publishing and the Small Press Book Fair, but over his writing career – his blog, his widely read “Hunkamooga” column, his past and forthcoming poetry books and novel, his participation in literary events, his work as a literary editor and instructor, his collegial and personal relations – more broadly. Given the duration and extent of Wallin and Villegas’ campaign against Ross, it is unclear how much further they intend to go – or how Ross might respond upon provocation.
(Thanks to Bookninja for the link.)
The way the Quillblog post is constructed leaves the reader with the conclusion that the posting by one individual over at Reading Toronto is now the accepted interpretation of events, namely that Wallin and Villegas are waging a nasty campaign against Ross, rather than the other way around. Allow me to share here what I also posted at Reading Toronto:
I’ve known Halli Villegas and Myna Wallin for many years, and they are hard-working, caring, talented, kind, and supportive.
Halli has done a lot of good for the community, including volunteering at the University of Toronto’s Taddle Creek Writers Workshop (which is where I first met her in 1999, when I was on faculty), working with Guernica Editions and Tightrope Books, and more.
And, as those who saw her brilliant featured reading this past Tuesday at the Plasticine series at The Central know, she is a wonderfully talented writer, to boot (and when her work with the Small Press Book Fair was mentioned by the emcee in introducing her, it should be noted that the audience responded with immediate, sustained, spontaneous applause).
Myna’s work promoting other authors through her radio program, working with the highly effective Algonquin Square Table poetry workshop at the University of Toronto, and with Believe Your Own Press, has also been terrific, and she too is a wonderful writer.
To suggest, as some have, that Ross’s response throughout has been reasoned, restrained, and rational while Wallin’s and Villegas’s has been the opposite is a very selective reading of the events.
To Robert Sawyer,
No matter how many times you use the word “brilliant” in reference to Wallin and Villegas, it does not change the fact that they have threatened Stuart Ross with a libel suit.
The issues are not whether Wallin and Villegas (or Ross) are personally nice folks or good writers.
The questions are:
– can such a threat help the situation?
– Can it help make a better Small press Fair?
– Can it improve conditions for writers across the country when libel chill has far reaching implications?
If Wallin and Villegas are concerned about their professional reputations, I would urge them to consider a divide and conquer approach, one that doesn’t see them tied so closely at the waist on so many projects, anthologies, festivals and reading series. Perhaps a little distance is in order.
Actually, I used the word “brilliant” but once, Dana Samuel. And the issues (the plural is your usage) are not just the lawsuit threat — if that was all that was under discussion, there’d have been nothing for Quill to report back in December, over a month before the lawsuit concept was put forth. Clearly, there is more at play here than that.
Indeed, to add to your list of issues: Has the unending vilification of volunteers who worked hard on the Small Press Book Fair last year, and the personal nature of the commentary about the individuals both in public and in private, fostered a climate in which others will feel uncomfortable in stepping forward to lend a helping hand in future?
And, dear IMHO, that’s just plain silly. Almost everyone in Canadian letters wears multiple hats; Halli and Myna are hardly overextended simply because they have accomplished pasts. But, yes, it is always easier for those who don’t contribute to sit on the sidelines and take shots at those who do. Would you care to come out from behind the cloak of anonymity so that we might put your contributions, if any, under a microscope, too?
Oh Robert, you are correct. It was “wonderful” that you peppered your comment with. My bad!
No one has ever shown any proof of the “unending vilification of volunteers” or the “personal nature of the commentary about the individuals both in public and in private.”
Just because someone appear to work hard, doesn’t mean they’re doing a good job, either.
Interesting to note, this is what Wallin and Villegas are now doing to defend themselves. One should note that the so-called “smear” has NEVER once been justified or proven, and followers of the discussion on all sources on-line have all commented that none of Ross’s comments are personal or defamitory. Have a look at their sympathy campaign, below:
—
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:55:43 -0500
Dear Friends:
This is something I haven’t wanted to draw your attention to. There are so
many good things going on in my career that I would rather tell you about!
But we have been given some advice from an author we respect to enlist
support
for what has become an untenable situation. For two and a half months, Halli
Villegas
and I have been subjected to a barrage of criticism, and then clearly
defamatory
comments made increasingly public, through Stuart Ross’ personal blog,
then the two sites on Facebook, the Toronto Small Press Book Fair, then on
“Friends
of the Toronto Small Press Book Fair,” and then spiralling out on blogs and
sites
all over the internet dealing with all things literary.
Things increased exponentially when the Toronto Small Press Fair was
nominated for a Torontoist Superhero Award, and continued even when
we placed third in an online vote (of a twenty-four heros shortlist)! An
article
was written on Reading Toronto recently, which then got picked up, as though
it were fact, by the Quill and Quire blog I’ve attached here. It began as a
piece of editorial journalism in the guise of fact. (I think it’s important
to note
that the author of that “article,” Amy Lavendar Harris, is a forthcoming
author
with Mansfield Press, where Stuart is a guest editor.)
Halli and I sent a “cease and desist” letter to Stuart on Jan. 15th,
basically
asking him to stop his smear campaign. This only increased it, while he
wrote everyone asking them to write letters to us personally, through e-mail
denouncing what we’d done, and calling for people to write articles and to
write to the Toronto and Ontario Arts Councils to deny us further funding.
I have over 250 blogs, blog posts, personal e-mails and group e-mails
on the subject to date. But the argument has been skewed thus far to
the negative side.
So I’m writing to you today, just a few select friends, to ask you to please
defend our good name by writing a comment on the Quill and Quire blog here.
We are not asking that you attack anyone, just asking that you say something
positive about us, so that the negative words will not outweigh all the
positive.
We have and continue to try to promote writers in our fields, through
Halli’s Tightrope Books, my radio show on CKLN, the Rowers Pub Reading
Series Halli helps organize and the Art Bar Reading Series that I help to
organize, and of course, the Toronto Small Press Book Fair. Any kinds words
at all will be greatly appreciated.
We have been warned that this story will only get bigger, going to more and
more legitimate outlets, like it already has at the Quill and Quire and at
the popular site Bookninja, where it also appeared earlier this month.
Sincerely,
Myna
—-
Having perused Q & Q for the first time, it seems to me that Canadian writers enjoy fighting with each other. The Small Press Book Fair “spat” is just another example.
As someone removed from the conflict (though a friend of Myna’s), it seems to me that a lot of bad blood is being spilled unnecessarily. I suggest that everyone, not just Stuart Ross, cease and desist for a while. Work on your poetry, stories, and novels instead. There is another Small Press Book Fair coming up soon. After it’s over go ahead and chime in with your praise or criticism. For now, enough is already more than enough.
How curious and yet predictable.
Myna Wallin now suggests that a conspiracy against her extends to the very ends of the internet. And at the centre of this immense imagined conspiracy, standing behind a vast electronic veil like the Wizard of Oz, (or so Wallin seems to allege) is Stuart Ross.
At the same time, Wallin manages in her letter not only to reiterate serious if utterly unsubstantiated accusations against Ross, but now to attack a broad range of other commenters who have weighed in on the matter, claiming that they have done so at the express behest of Stuart Ross.
Even more curious is that Wallin can conceive only that respondents have acted at the request of Mr. Ross, rather than doing so (as many have stated) out of a wish to see the serious public allegations against Mr. Ross substantiated or withdrawn and/or to see some effort on the part of Wallin and Villegas to act in any way consistent with their responsibilities as current coordinators of the Small Press Book Fair.
This debacle is not and never has been about Stuart Ross. It is and always has been about the running of the Small Press Book Fair. I wrote on the subject for Reading Toronto because it is my view that Toronto literature requires a climate of openness to thrive and can only be damaged by efforts to silence its voices.
As for Stuart Ross’ editing work with the prospective publisher of a book I am currently completing, it should be pointed out that Ross has published with, or edited for, a great many Toronto publishers. Indeed, it is worth pointing out that Mr. Ross has both edited and published Wallin’s own work—which puts her in the most curious position of all.
All of this is so counter-productive. I know that Myna Wallin, for instance, has worked tirelessly to promote poetry and small press efforts in Toronto. This giant spat can do nothing except detract from her work, and from the work of the other parties involved.
What a pointless energy drain.
Thanks, Mary Jo Pollak, for your positive outlook!
The fact that she may be a good writer or good person is not the point. Her behaviour and reaction is out of proportion and inappropriate.
And also, you should be aware that the Small Press Fair is not about promoting Myna Wallin’s work.
Thanks though, for being a meat-puppet! Let’s try to stick to the issues.
This dispute is not about the quality of anyone’s poetic contributions or who has done more to support poetry and small press efforts in Toronto. Such comments are irrelevant. The issues are relevant, and all the legal posturing and name-calling are obscuring the issues at the heart of the matter.
Personally, I find this situation quite objectionable. It’s ugly, and it damages the morale of the entire community. From the evidence I have seen, and I believe have seen all of it that is publicly available, I have no doubt that Stuart Ross will be vindicated in this matter.
And another thing, since this forum seems to welcome irrelevant commentary, if this dispute really was about the quality of one’s poetic contributions and who has done more to support poetry and small press efforts in Toronto, then Stuart Ross would win in a double landslide. The poetry and the small press communities in Toronto have known few champions of his quality and stature.
I was using Myna as an example, because I know her. But what I meant to say exactly what Paul Vermeersch said — the situation is damaging the entire community. But no matter the size and quantity of anybody’s contribution, it all counts, and it is all now being side-tracked by pettiness.
Full disclosure - I’m a friend of Myna’s, and I’ve also attended the Small Press Fair for years. I though this year’s went well indeed and I have no complaints whatsoever about the organization of it.
Indeed, I have nothing but praise for Myna’s organizational talents. At a IV Lounge reading a few months back being guest-hosted by her, she was faced with a near-insurmountable list of problems at the last minute, all out of her control (reader cancels at the last minute, bartender doesn’t show up till late, etc.) that she handled by jumping in feet first. It was a fun evening, thanks to her.
I have no real idea what her detractors are on about, but anyone running down her abilties hasn’t seen her in action.
this isn’t damaging a community (as if a group of writers who live in same location are what makes up a “community”) it’s just reminding everyone that writers do not all think alike as much as publications like Q&Q (and the other government literary type propagandists) like to pretended.
that said the lawyer thing is a BIG LAPSE in judgment.
remember no one on either side of this issue is “blameless”. from all i have seen of the work of wallin and villegas (in their actual writing and their “community outreach” behavior) i’m not surprised by their bruised ego’s.
and lets not kid ourselves stuart ross is not the easiest person to get along with, as anyone who has known him well for more that a couple of years will confirm and yes i know I AM PERHAPS THE MOST DIFFICULT person to get along with.
everyone involved seems to be the kind of writer who’s sure “They Know Best”, i guess they learned that from some workshop somewhere, maybe the patriarch is the blame or something.
any way as people are fond of saying the issues have yet to be discussed properly. those being the fade glory of the small press book fair and maybe someone will actual talk about that one day. but i’m not holding my breath. events like THIS BATTLE are what form communities and make relationships that people do actually work in.
the book fair WAS such an event but it has long since lost it’s value. now it has become a Point Of Sale vehicle, and non-mainstream literature and the presses that produce it in toronto need to have more than a POS event. they need some soul or integrity.
it seems to me that ross was sticking his nose into the business of the fair. an activity that in the past, only happened behind closed doors. if you had a problem with the way the fair was run you stopped doing it.
simple.
and unfortunately the same reason the fair was mere shadow of it’s past. many great presses stopped going stopped showing up stopped coming.
ross’s actions were somewhat unusual and certainly not something that “a nice guy” would do. sorta like reminding a spazz their a spastic.
but as i say before lawyers are a whole new level of SLEAZINESS.
these events should kill any hope for a decent spring fair, but maybe from it’s ashes something like a real community might happen
daniel f. bradley
Thanks, Daniel, I love you too. xo
*Toronto poet turns turncoat - bids to become campaign manager for Stuart Ross.*
(Special to the Toronto Small Press Community)
In a startling turn of events, Toronto writer David Livingstone Clink has made a bid to become Stuart Ross’ campaign manager. Clink has been a loyal supporter of the two women who run the Toronto Small Press Book Fair (Myna Wallin and Halli Villegas), and this 180 degree turn is all the more startling, since his first book of poetry, Eating Fruit out of Season, edited by Lampert Award winner Adam Getty, is due to come out from Tightrope Books, in June 2008 (where Villegas is the publisher, and Wallin is the poetry editor). Stuart Ross is the co-founder of the Toronto Small Press Book Fair. Wallin and Villegas claim that he has waged a campaign to discredit them for their running of the fair.
Clink said, “I have known Stuart Ross for many years. I have attended his boot camp three times. I like him as a person, and am in awe of his charismatic personality, as are many others. He loves small press, and has a long history of being an author, an editor, and a small press booster. I asked him to read at special events that I organized (when I was Artistic Director of the Art Bar Poetry Series, which I ran for 3 years, Canada’s pre-eminent weekly poetry series) including a Canadian Poetry night, and the Dead Poets Society night.”
Clink continued, “I have to admit I am intrigued by the way in which Mr. Ross has waged this battle from the start, making it look like he is the wounded party instead of being the aggressor, making it look like Wallin and Villegas are the ones who have instigated things, and have kept this going (even though they have no reason to). This is sensational stuff. The spin is making my head spin!”
Asked how he would run the campaign, Clink said, “I would continue to get people to write opinion pieces that pass as journalism, and make sure they get picked up in the Quill and Quire Blog, and Bookninja. I think there has been some success with a journalistic looking post by Amy Lavender Harris. It is important that we get others to do the same, and to hide key facts, like in Amy’s case, she has never attended a Toronto Small Press Fair, she has a book coming out this year (edited by Mr. Ross), and that she did not contact Wallin or Villegas for their side of the story for her ‘clear-eyed and even-handed account’ as one person who read her article has commented. It is important that these ‘articles’ look like they are written by disinterested parties. It doesn’t seem to matter whether they have all the facts, or provide both points of view. This is how you build a brilliant campaign!”
“There has been great momentum in recent weeks, with a number of people in the literary community stepping out and praising Mr. Ross and taking his side. It is great that George Murray has spoken out. George edited an earlier version of my poetry manuscript, and I am indebted to him for doing so. He is an excellent editor, and I am a huge fan of his writing; I have found him to be one of the good guys, a well respected writer and family man. It is good for us that he has not talked to Villegas and Wallin. We need more people to step forward. If we can get Margaret Atwood, the Pope, and Akon to weigh in, that would be sweet!”
Asked how this all started, Clink cleared his throat, and said, “A Small Press Fair was held on November 10, 2007 (the same fair that Mr. Ross co-founded 20 years ago). Wallin and Villegas ran it horribly, completely butchering it! Not a single person enjoyed themselves, and only 300 attended. Everyone attending the fair puked on each other, and were disgusted. It took a week to clean the place! I heard one of the featured readers at the fair was so disappointed by the fair that they attempted suicide, but failed in the attempt, and then got a very good poem out of it! Wallin and Villegas have been attacking Mr. Ross ever since the fair ended. That is what happened, sort of, and that is the message we have to push. We have to push this message, and push it hard, and that Wallin and Villegas are using a spurious law suit to censure people from openly commenting on the situation. This is playing very well, many people are swallowing this! Freedom of speech has been used as a defence by Holocaust deniers, and pornographers, and it is great that Stuart Ross (co-founder of the Toronto Small Press Book Fair) is now using it to fend off these two dangerous, assertive women to great acclaim. Why, after being bruised and battered for 9 weeks, basically being left for dead in the middle of Bloor Street, why do they not just give up? They should be resigned to the fact that they should resign! On a positive note, dry cleaners had a good November, cleaning puke stains off of clothing.”
“It would be bad for the campaign if the truth were known, so we should instruct those that support us not to mention that the major concerns that were identified regarding the fair were addressed in the first week following it. We do not want people to be aware that Wallin and Villegas had control of the fair that morning, that Carolina Smart was in charge of set-up, and was in communication with Villegas by cell phone that morning, several times – it is better to keep the message that they arrived late (but don’t mention that they before the 11 a.m. starting time), and were not on top of things (even though they were).”
Asked if there were other things that people should not be aware of, Clink said, “We don’t want people to read Stuart’s book, “Confessions of a Small Press Racketeer” because it details, in Stuart’s own words, the bridges he has burned, and the run ins he has had with people, because we do not want people to recognize patterns of misbehaviour by Mr. Ross. We certainly do not want people to be aware of the breadth of experience that Wallin and Villegas have. I have known Myna Wallin for many years, she is an accomplished editor and radio host, a host with the Art Bar Poetry Series, and I have worked with her successfully on believe your own press, a small press that published in its 5 years (2002-2007) 20 beautiful poetry chapbooks, including the first poetry chapbooks of Teresa Dunat Banks, Alex Boyd, Dani Couture, Nashira Dernesch, Ron Newberry Evans, Bobby Hsu, Chris Jennings, and, Henry Mak. I have known Halli Villegas for several years. She is a professional, erudite, and caring person. She is the publisher of Tightrope Books, which will be publishing a Canadian version of The Best American Poetry this Fall, with Stephanie Bolster as its first guest editor. She is the Administrative Director of the Rowers Pub Reading Series, where she handled a lot of the work in the creation of Rowers Pub Reading Series Inc., and setting up the bank account, and making sure that the incorporation papers were done properly. I cannot imagine running the series without her.”
Asked if he would like to make any final comments, Clink said, “I look forward to helping out Mr. Ross, in my role as campaign manager, if he will have me. I would like to lead the team already in place that includes the very able Amy Lavender Harris, Dana Samuels (aka Anal Medusa aka Dana Plato), and Jan and Johnny Burnaway. I think there are a lot of opportunities to take down Villegas and Wallin. We have to get more opinion pieces to pass as journalism, and for many more people who have never attended the fair to chime in. We certainly don’t want people to talk to Wallin and Villegas, because we don’t want to lose people to our cause. We do not want people puking at the next fair.”
“I think it is important that we continue to disrespect Wallin and Villegas, and the positions they hold. We should continue to gloss over the fact that the fair was handed over to them legally by the previous co-ordinators, and that they have charge of the fair and can run it as they see fit (as all the previous co-ordinators have done). I think it is important that we give respect to Stuart Ross, who co-started this whole press fair ball of wax. There should be a small press founder award, and Stuart Ross should win this each year. There should be a bas-relief of Stuart Ross, that we can commission and wheel it out to the fair every 6 months, making sure we dust it off first, so we can pay homage to the man who has given us so much. I think this is the least we can do for the man who not only co-founded the Fair, but is now trying so valiantly to save it.”
“And if Mr. Ross needs cash to help him fight and win this campaign, we can start up a fund for Stu, and call it ‘the Stu Fund’, like the Twin Towers Fund for the victims of 9/11, or the funds set up for the families displaced by Katrina. Having two competent, professional women stand up to Mr. Ross (after all, he is the co-founder of the Toronto Small Press Book Fair, and is beyond reproach), I think, is too much for him, so please, let us support Stuart in this major crisis. Wallin and Villegas should resign. That is the bottom line. Wallin and Villegas MUST resign, and resign immediately, and the fact that they haven’t makes me puke, and disgusts me. They should return to their kitchens and bedrooms, and work on the craft of pleasing men, and leave the running of literary events to the purview of men, and the old boys’ club. Men should not feel threatened by women; it should be the other way around. I want Mr. Ross to know that I have his back. I will do whatever is necessary to help him spread his message of extreme dislike, in the guise of free speech, and pray to God (who must be on Stu’s side) that no one finds out the truth about all of this, we do not want the mounting pressure to stop. And I hope that Mr. Ross will give my offer to run his smear campaign due consideration.”
Dude, your sarcasm will likely be lost on many, and your post is too on to sit through.
But you — esentially, logically — equating Ross and others with Holocaust deniers is sick. My family, Ross’s family, died in the Holocaust, so your sarcasm just makes you look like a dink.
Though it does prove that axiom that all internet flame wars eventually invoke the Holocaust at some point. Thanks for proving the internet correct!
And for clouding the issues — since this has nothing to do with sexism. Grow up, Clink.
Thank you, David Clink! What a wonderful, satiric, insightful piece. I urge everyone to read it all the way through. Well done!
And to Myna and Halli, let me say what I’ve seen many others say to you offline: THANK YOU. Thank you for your hard, creative work on the Small Press Book Fair. Thank you for your many wonderful contributions to Canadian literature, Canadian poetry, and the Canadian small press. You are profound and significant assets to all the communities you are part of, and a great many people respect both of you and have deep affection for both of you.
I echo every word of Donald Simmons’s comment above, and add that his praise for Myna is equally applicable to Halli.
I echo every word of daniel f. bradley’s comment above, and add that his praise for Myna is equally applicable to Halli.
Midlife crises can be very hard on talented young writers. It’s times like that when threatening to litigate anyone critical of us might seem preferable to crafting even the most exquisite tourist brochures to our own inner countries.
Us older folk do understand. We’ve been there and overdone that. Well — if not the talented part, at least the crises. But we also realize how gone the time we’ve wasted is.
To the Small Press Community.
The blog item I posted was a satire,
but it went way to far.
I do apologize.
Even though we see what has happened
in a different light from the day of the fair,
I took the satiric element way too far.
There are very good people on both sides of this
issue that I respect and care about. I want to continue to
work with, collaborate with, and enjoy the company of
people from both camps. I do not want to lose friendships
over this. Perhaps it is best to just say we can agree to disagree,
because there are so many other things that we can find
a common purpose. I wrote the email in anger, as many
other people have written things in anger, and I have
come to the realization that we should let cooler,
saner heads prevail.
Let’s give the conciliation a chance!
I sent a personal apology to Stuart,
and I finished my apology by saying:
“The satire went beyond what I envisioned it
to be. I am sorry for this. I truly am.”
- david, clink
Thank you to David Clink. While some might have enjoyed the original satire — “What a wonderful, satiric, insightful piece. I urge everyone to read it all the way through. Well done!” — most of us embroiled or gaping from the sidelines at this carnage do hope that “cooler, saner heads prevail.”
Decently done.
I think it is like insecurity at the law offices of Wallin & Villegas who perhaps felt threatened by the vote of no confidence and they figure well, better shift the focus on our shortcomings and make it about conspiracy theories.
Why hasn’t the OAC said anything eh?
It is not like the TSPBF is going to be held at Air Canada Centre right?
But if it was, would they make posters. That is the question.
I think it is maybe too bad eh, and like it’s time to stop using the word community so freely. We are not a troop of Scouts or Girl Guides, we are the furthest thing from a community eh?
I mean, a basketball team is tight. A group of poets and writers who publish with poverty stricken publishers and spend most of the year playing mind games with one another, like a community does not make right?
Maybe we should not sit at tables and expect so much from each other.
Maybe it’s time to think quietly about our own lives and just hope for the best.
I don’t think this is happening anywhere else in the world.
Maybe it’s the drinking water at that church eh, all creeped out on Jesus and stuff. Maybe God and Jesse Christ are tainting the water and leading the mutiny and linch mob styles.
Maybe we need to realise that we are not rap stars east coast west coast and maybe stop using internet to talk about things.
Maybe find new friends we must eh?
I for one am doing it.
I think blaming people over chairs and tables and quality of life is like, not a right of a writer in Toronto.
I think it’s time to reflect, not like Duran Duran but like, it’s time to stop lawyer threats and maybe get into some other form of creativity.
Peace Corp or Yoga.
Hey everybody, check out my review of Myna’s book A Thousand Profane Pieces at the website address below:
http://www.shvoong.com/books/poetry/1747144-thousand-profane-pieces/
Wow. What an inappropriate place for a shill. Amazing.
The internet is a fascinating place. The other day someone forwarded me the most poignantly beautiful rendition of “Miss Otis Regrets” sung by the incomparable Carmen McCrae in 1980. magic.
Last year a hugely nasty disbute broke out on another list serv I belong to which started off as an obvious misunderstanding and ended with incredible nastiness and vile flung from both sides causing extreme embarassement to all parties. How unecessary.
It’s just too easy to write an email in the throws of anger and hit the send button.
I have known Myna since high school and have been a huge fan of hers as a writer, an editor, an organizer, and a friend. She has worked tirelessly at both her own small press and readings to promote other writers and to rightly establish herself as an anchor in the community. Myna has built relationships by attending other people’s readings, editing their work, and by being an honest, supportive and positive influence in their lives.
I also happen to know that in spite of all of the flack she has received about this fair, rather than resign, she and Halli have already been setting the wheels in motion for the next fair. I know that when Myna and Halli are determined to do something it will be done with professionalism, integrity, and they will also bring their special flare and creativity to the project.
What has happened over the past couple of months is tragic for all sides.
I know that Myna and Halli want nothing more than to put an end to this so they can instead focus on their important work as writers, publishers, organizers and promoters. I don’t know Stuart, but I can’t imagine that he would want anything different than that nor would most of the people who have been writing the 250 blogs and emails sited in Myna’s letter.
I can only hope for all parties concerned that they find a way to mediate, resolve and move forward. I understand that this mediation process is now is progress. Please let’s give it a chance.
I
Now why doesn’t everyone take a deep breath, go back to your typewriters, and use all that energy to write something engaging instead of sniping at each other.
Quoting Fern: “I know that when Myna and Halli are determined to do something it will be done with professionalism, integrity, and they will also bring their special flare and creativity to the project.”
Then I don’t understand why they haven’t seemed to bring that same professionalism and integrity to bear on dealing with this whole legal situation? If they are as upstanding as you say then why haven’t they just been able to deal with this properly instead of escalating it beyond belief?
“Now why doesn’t everyone take a deep breath, go back to your typewriters, and use all that energy to write something engaging instead of sniping at each other.”
What’s a typewriter?
Alright Alright…Go back to your quill and parchment.
Both Myna Wallin and Halle Villegas have done a lot of good on behalf of Toronto’s writing community.
Perhaps publicity for the Toronto Small Book Fair was not handled to everyone’s satisfaction. Perhaps their cease and desist order was unwarranted. A desperate reaction, no doubt, to what they perceived as unrelenting bashing care of Ross and Company.
Let’s all of remember that his type of bickering serves only to diminish us.
Um, no one’s ever qualified what this co-called “unrelenting bashing” was. And are you suggesting that Stuart Ross has never “done a lot of good on behalf of Toronto’s writing community”, and therefore deserves litigation?
Maybe if these two people (Mina and Halli) had simply admitted their mistakes, this wouldn’t have blown out of proportion, but all they did was deny any problems.
This type of denial and “desperate” extreme action serves only to diminish Mina and Halli.
I never suggested that Stuart Ross has never done a lot of good. Merely that the finger pointing stop and everyone expend their energies to ensuring this writing community stay vibrant and, one would hope, vital.
This bickering makes our community look small and petty.
Well then one should note that you were quick to finger-point, yourself, toward “Ross and Company”. Glass houses?
Am I mistaken? Did it not start with Ross and Company? Illuminate us all.
Wait! You’re right. Don’t even answer that. Glass houses. Whatever you say. Who really cares.
Now can we end it and get on with the positive aspects of our writing community?
A similar imbroglio erupted in Toronto’s sci-fi community some ten years ago. It is sad to see such a drama repeating itself on a different stage but with some of the same players.
Let’s settle this at No Way Out!
This pinching fight has got to stop, I am running out of Advil. These paperbags are shaffing me as well.
This storyline is so played out. The rights were recently picked up by Bravo. Vince said “I would rather promote dead people than do another Toronto small press storyline.”
However, according to the tv drama adaptation, wherein Vanessa James, Sarah Polley and Mark Ruffalo are to star in SPLINTERS: The Rise & Fall of the Toronto Small Press Book Fair, there is a happy ending, two actually, as THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES PROFITTING FROM THIS TRAGEDY!!!
When I started posting my opinions on this issue,
I honestly thought I was applying for a grant when I started to join this debate!
You mean there is no pay off?
I denounce this community!
I renounce God and Canada Council and OAC and the LPG!
I renounce the church across from Shopper’s Drug Mart!
I renounce Mr. Ocean and Mr. Pitt!
Forget it!
All of this is so productive. I know that , for instance, at least four small press books have been returned to bookstores as a result of this controversary, and at least 116 really terrible poems have been written since the TSPBF ended. And when do you think we’re going to have to read them? Hear about them? Or be tricked into buying them?
In June sometime? I don’t know how you can promote small press poetry in a city where people wear coats instead of writing good poetry.
This giant spat can do nothing except promote the wearing of coats over writing poetry that is going to get published and then put into boxes because no one will attend the press fair because of terrorism.
There have been plenty of comments that made little sense posted on this site but the one above from CNN made, perhaps, the least sense.
I don’t know Stuart Ross.
But I would like to extend my support to Myna and Halli, let me say that I appreciate their hard work and dedication to Canadian literature and to the Small Press Book Fair. I have a great deal of respect for both of them, and I hope that this contraversy will stop with this posting.
AMEN!
Chris C.,
You seem ignorant of the issues here. Halli and Myna’s past works have nothing to do with this. Neither do Stuart Ross’s, and even if they did, it has been pointed out, and it is a matter of record, that Stuart Ross’s hard work and dedication to Canadian literature and the Small Press Book Fair greatly eclipse that of Halli and Myna’s. He founded the fair, and he’s just been at it a lot longer. It’s simple math. So never mind that you happen to think so-and-so is a nice person or a hard worker. It just not relevant.
What is the issue here is that Stuart Ross has been accused of some serious things, and there is absolutely no evidence that any of it is true, and neither Myna or Halli will go on record with a single a single shred of clear evidence to support their wildly inappropriate claims. They have not given anyone any reason to believe a single word they are saying.
Furthermore, by threatening legal action against a fellow writer who dared to criticize their performance in a public role, they have set a precedent for libel chill in a community of writers. Writers trying to silence writers, and making it easier for such action to occur in the future! Frankly, I can’t think of anything more heinous. A lot of the respect I have for their hard work and dedication to Canadian literature is entirely eclipsed by this thoughtless and malevolent action.
Writers trying to silence writers isn’t the issue, (though it would make a good poster) nor is writing about literary eclipses a way of solving issues.
The last thing we need is a music video tribute on Youtube, a Concert for Hope, a Parade or any more thought put into what will arguably go down as the lowest and most boring point in the history of Toronto Literati.
Though I did like the TSPBF War segment on TRE (Toronto Ruins Everything) with Mel Lastmen talking about his favourite Small Press fair moments. And then he turned to the camera and said “Noooooooooooooooooooooobody can stop this great event from happening. Noooooooooooooobody!”
What happened is pure garden variety insecurity, any math teacher or phys ed teacher can tell you that. It’s easier to blame one person than it is to blame yourself. The truth is, we will never know who is behind the conspiracy to move the Small Press Book fair into Lake Ontario.
But it does set a precedent for many things. Now when writers get rejection notices for grants or from The New Quarterly or Big Writer Fun or Tamboreen Magazine, they can cite the 2007 precedent of TSPBF versus Ross, and weild in bag after bag after bag or rejection letters just like in Miracle on 42nd Street.
The idea that heinous controversy can be stopped by postings is about as realistic as saying “I was so over that spat when the SNL skits about the book fair war aired and Mad Magazine satires started in,”
As we all know, those skits bombed, and it was the worst selling Mad Magazine (outside of Toronto) in US history.
Now I’m sure you, reading this are saying this is irelevant and makes no sense.
Do you see a theme?
None of this makes sense.
If anyone is to be sued or threatened for legal action, it should be the funding bodies who allow us all the ability to function together as a community.
They are to blame for the heinous social and literary dysfunction.
I have been married to all three of the principals of this story.
One burnt my casserole.
One lost my sock.
One betrayed me with the prime minister of Lalaland.
and yet I love you still.
Come back to me.
Signed.
L.L.
p.s. All your good ideas came from me
Re: Dan Boyd’s unwillingness to let go.
The matter has, from my understanding, been resolved and all parties are willing to move on.
Neither side is blameless. But they’re willing to give it a rest.
Perhaps you should take a page from their book and move on as well instead of continuing this childish “blame game.”
Max, where did you hear this, that everything has been resolved?
To my knowledge, the matter has not been resolved.
The threat of a lawsuit is still in play.
The dispute remains active and unresolved.
“Resolved” was not the right word. The matter is “resting”.
Why don’t all of you do the same.
You’re the one who came in here after three days of “rest” and told us this misinformation.
Get over it Barb.
Get over it Max.
Very Mature Barb.
Max, have you seen anyone about this pathalogical need to get in the last word?
No I haven’t Barb.
From your own experience, can you recommend anyone?
That’s what I mean.
Well Barbara it looks like you’ve won the battle of the last word.
Perhaps Barbara needs to see someone.
Has trial date been scheduled yet? Will there be a motion to dismiss this legal action as frivolous and vexatious?
Ah, all the trolls come out under the guise of anonymity.
Do you people not wonder what Q&Q must think of the dregs of this thread? I think they’re thinking: “Note to self: Tell friends in publishing business never to publish anyone whose last name rhymes with Stink or Lawyer.”
Dear Quill and Quire:
Can you please close off the comments on this thread? It’s clear that any intelligent discussion and debate is over and all has gone to the trolls.
Even Craigslist has a flag function.
Can I have the last word?
Thanks.
Sweet, Max gets the last word.
Right on!
Dear Quill and Quire:
My students really love to read about Canadian poets like this. They are doing a project on Canadian Poetry Bickering on the Internet in 21st Century Literature with a focus on erasure poets and boring poets.
They want to know if Leonard Cohen and Anne Simpson and Anne Carson are going to be involved in this fight or if it will be resolved by Victoria Day, as the students are putting on their own pinching fight for the Spring Convection Concert.
They were wondering if you would consider optioning this blog fight into a possible musical or for “Quillblog on Ice” for $0.56 US or consider taking out an ad for Quillblog in the upcoming issue of our student newspaper the Voice of the Beehive.
Thank you,
Stompin’ Tim Conners
Canadian Crybaby School of Canadian Poetry
Could this be dealt with by Human Rights Commissions? Or should there be criminal charges?
Huh?
Get A Life Max.
Less talk. More legal action.
Kyle: Aw, hey dude. What are you doing here?
Stan: Helping my friend pick out some cool new power tools for his upcoming small press trial. What are you doing?
Kyle: [his head drops] Helping my Dad give people fake literary career fines.[Randy reaches his red SUV and notices the citiation on his windshield]
Randy: What’s this? [takes the citation and reads it]
Gerald: Oh! Sorry Randy. Looks like you got a ticket.
Randy: A ticket? “Failure to care about the community” Oh Goddamnit, did you do this, Gerald?!
Gerald: Yeah. I’m just, you know, trying to make people more aware yayou know, it’s a-
Randy: You got some nerve, you know that?! Where do you come off ticketing people?!
Gerald: Well, Randy, calm down. It’s not a real ticket.
Randy: I know it’s not a real ticket!! It’s for my imaginary career as a Toronto small press poet!!!!
Jimbo: [approaches] Broflovski, did you put this crap on my windshield?! [Randy crosses his arms]
Gerald: Jimbo, your truck probably gets less than ten miles to the gallon.
Jimbo: [crumples the ticket into a wad and throws it down] Well thanks, Officer Dickhole!
Kyle: …I think we are starting to become alienated from some of your friends.
Gerald: Well, I totally agree, Kyle.
Kyle: You do??
Gerald: Yes. A lot of people in town just aren’t ready to be civil to one another off page.
Kyle: What the hell is off page?
Gerald: It’s moditfied small press behaviour outside of the printed or published page, okay? And that’s why, [hugs Sheila by the shoulder] I’ve talked it over with your mother, and [releases the hug] …we’ve decided to MOVE!
Kyle: What??
Gerald: We have to move on from this trauma, and start a new press fair in Waterloo or possibly Ajax.
Kyle: But no one will go to those events?
Gerald: Do what your mother says and pack up your little zines and chapbooks.
Kyle: Dad I’m going to sue you!
Gerald: Now Kyle, you can’t just copy other writers. Be original. That’s not the Ajax way.
Now THAT’S funny!
Maybe that’s what’s lacking with some writers and poets these days.
They take it all too seriously.
As if they have the pulse on what’s wrong with the world.
Or in this case with small book fairs.
Hi Dana,
Perhaps you could come out and say what you intend under your real name, instead of hiding behind solely a pseudonymous first name, like a dink.
Need “to move on from this trauma”? Your own audience turning against you?
Bring the legal action you threatened. Or drop it and try putting on a better show.
What a childish and paranoid group.
You forgot “petulant”.
That’s a good word.
Also the last word.
Oh my god! You killed Quillblog!
And this just in, Queen & Bathurst has been designated as the new Toronto Small Press Bookfair location…wait a minute, what’s going on. I smell burnt toast. I smell burnt books…. Doctor…
Kyle: I think what we’ve learned from all this is, sticks and stones and Quillblog posts hurt, but fire is forever. We also learned that the TSPFCOP (Toronto Small Press Fair Children of Paranoia) group, is about to release their first album in Scarborough later this month.
Todd: I for one can’t wait, when I grow up, I am gonna be a badass poet.
Gerald: Do ever you like Todd, but leave my Kyle out of it. He has work to do.
Kyle: Dad, why don’t you get a real job like a drug dealer or a troll.
Gerald: Now Kyle, remember what your career councellor said, be judgemental but also be creative. That’s the small press way.
Kyle: Sorry dad. Do you think the press fair will survive this tragedy?
Gerald: There’s only one way to find out. There’s only one way.
Kyle: Sometimes dad you are okay. When you aren’t being a petulant literary asscrab.
Gerald: That’s the title of my new chapbook. I’ll be reading from it later at the Toronto Small Press Book Fair Stop and Sob BBQ.
“Do you think the press fair will survive this tragedy?”
Stupid question, kid. Give your head a shake. Everyone’s here for the legal action. Don’t fool yourself how all this negative attention came from you exposing your personal shortcomings.
Start asking yourself who you’ll threaten to sue when the fair Myna Wallin and Halli Villegas burned and buried has been forgotten.
Calm yourself Ralph.
I don’t think as many people are as bothered by this so called threat as you imagine.
Have you tried yoga or deep breathing.
Think again Max.
People don’t seek out getting bothered. We are not crowding reading and posting here because how “bothered” we are. Or to exalt in each others’ narrative brilliance. Such as it isn’t.
Not one doctor told us to crowd around here for yoga or better health of any kind. We are here for some spectacularly inappropriate legal action that got threatened. Only.
Some of us are getting sick and tired waiting for it. Bring it already. Bring on the legal action you threatened. Or drop it, apologize wasting everyone’s time and try putting on a better show in the future.
Poor max. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride.
Ralph,
You keep urging me to “bring on the legal action” as if I had any to offer you.
You are either:
1. Sadly misinformed as to who I am
or
2. Simply suffering from a touch of Paranoia.
If only I could assuage your fears and offer you something in the way of litigation believe me I would.
Would you feel better if I had my lawyer call your lawyer?
If only I had a lawyer.
Wait!
I could arrange for you to be issued a parking ticket.
Providing you had a car.
Please Ralph
Calm yourself.
Think again Max. Think harder.
“Bring on the legal action you threatened” doesn’t mean you personally. It means you generically. Like, whoever threatened the legal action — bring it already. Or drop it, apologize wasting everyone’s time and try putting on a better show in the future.
Reading comprehension, Max. Get literate — not literal. Stop taking every “you” personally. Because you specifically, Max, are not the designated bridesmaid here. You’re just another face in the crowd reading these posts.
Ralph,
The way you go on about the”legal action-bring it already,” sounds like the tough in the schoolyard who, feeling slighted, in a fit of bravado thumps his chest and shouts, “You wanna piece of me!”
Have you read a paper or followed the news lately?
Your demands are pretty low on the list of issues that matter these days.
Stop sounding so self righteous
and
give it a rest Ralph.
Oh, and by the way…
Barb said I could be the bridesmaid.
Max is right Ralph. You are sounding rather self-righteous and shrill.
Let’s move on.
Yeah. Max? Naruda? None of this is about how I sound to you. If your feelings got hurt — it surely wasn’t personal. Not from my side. So try not taking it personal from yours. Remember we haven’t been properly introduced.
Back to the regularly scheduled. Check out latest at the lexiconjury discussion group. Myna Wallin wrote:
The letter should not be viewed as a threat because as long as you refrain from defamation, there is nothing to worry about. The letter gave a clear example of the defamatory passage as determined by a lawyer (and you only need one example) and asked for specific actions. We are satisfied that you have stopped as requested. We will not be filing a suit at this time.
What does this even mean? Well, for one thing, it means that though Myna got all public declaring how Stuart defamed her, she won’t be disclosing what Stuart’s defamatory statement was. Not in public. Us public Joes can go twist. Because what the defamatory statement was stays private between her and her lawyer. Doesn’t matter how public she gets whenever alleging Stuart’s defaming.
Myna. Dear. Please. Disclose what the allegedly defamatory statement was. Ok? You threw this whole defamation thing in our public faces. Back it up already. Because until you do it totally sounds like you got offended by truthful criticism. Back your allegation up because there’s no legal right to not be offended. There’s no legal obligation not to offend.
You might have been right to be offended, Myna. But it sounds downright unstable telling anyone offending you that they have legally defamed you — except you won’t be taking legal action unless they ever do it again.
How remotely conceivably is that not threatening? By this point, Myna, one must agree with what’s been repeatedly pointed out already. After so publicly and repeatedly alleging defamation, you had better substantiate your allegation. Otherwise it will only be reasonable to conclude all the defamating has been done by you. Not to you.
Ralph,
You seem more obsessed and angry with this issue than is healthy.
Why is it so important for you to know the intimate details when the principals in this affair have chosen to remain silent.
If you really want to know, ask Stuart.
No one else here seems to be demanding details or, for that matter, to care as much as you.
“Intimate details”? “… principals.. have chosen to remain silent”?
Check out lexiconjury discussion group, Naruda. Where, and I quote again, Myna publicly declared:
(quote) The letter gave a clear example of the defamatory passage as determined by a lawyer (and you only need one example) and asked for specific actions. We are satisfied that you have stopped as requested. We will not be filing a suit at this time. (unquote)
Where, and I quote, Gary Barwin publicly wrote:
(quote) Imagine.. a large sign that said: ‘The Fair retains its legal rights to sue you if you defame someone. (There has been ongoing defamation from some participants…maybe even YOU.) This notice should not be viewed as a threat because as long as you refrain from defamation, there is nothing to worry about. You have been warned.’ That’s libel chill. That is also a way to close down meaningful and open public discussion. And free speech. (unquote)
Where, and I quote, Amy Lavender Harris publicly wrote:
(quote) Myna; Given your repeated and public claims that Stuart Ross has defamed you — public claims that have been asserted without any specific evidence to back them up — I think you have an obligation to share the necessary evidence. Either that or to publicly withdraw those claims. (unquote)
So best luck with your silencing project, Naruda. With all the public discussing at lexiconjury, at Torontoist, at Reading Toronto and over 80 posts right here — you’ll need the best of luck.
What has produced greater public resonance than Myna’s repeatedly either false or unsubstantiated public defamation accusations? Like, ever — in Toronto?
As a rule, I’m not a betting man but I’d wager that Ralph is a “shill” for Stuart.
Anybody agree?
Perhaps one and the same.
“Max”, I think you’d be wise to withdraw that latest comment. It’s another in an egregious string of unfounded assaults on Stuart Ross’ character, and smacks of conspiracy thinking.
How remarkable that while posting under an incomplete or misleading identity, you attack others whose identities you do not recognise. This would simply be a banal form of hypocrisy if you did not also direct your ad hominems at Stuart Ross, who to my knowledge has not participated in this conversation at all. By doing so, you’ve exposed yourself to charges that you’ve committed an actionable libel.
For the record, any posts made by me to this or any other forum are made under my full and real name. Can you say the same, “Max?”
Have your lawyer call my lawyer.
Wait.
I don’t have a lawyer.
Have your lawyer call my dentist.
I note the egregious and arguably actionable nature of your comments, “Max,” only to point out that while Stuart Ross continues to live under the threat of legal action and unfounded accusations of defamation, others — including yourself — engage in the very behaviour you claim to decry.
Wow. Amy Lavender Harris spanking some face over me. Now that’s what I like getting home from work to.
Don’t waste your energy, Amy. Max there doesn’t understand the issues you raised. Never mind distinguishing legitimate issues from ad hominem fallacy.
Dear public,
For the record, this is the letter that has been selectively quoted on this blog.
Dear Stuart,
Thank you very much for your offer to meet in mediation with us. We know that you are as anxious to bring this to a swift conclusion as we are since you, like ourselves, have professional and personal obligations that need attending to.
We have found a mediator that we feel is neutral with the appropriate background to best deal with the sort of issues that need to be addressed. Her name is Sarah Sheard. Neither of us know Sarah personally. We met her at a reading where her credentials were read as part of her bio and spoke briefly to her about the process and her fees. She is a writer, a therapist and has been a professional mediator since 1998, handling over 142 cases. Her credentials can be found at www.sarahsheard.com. Her fee is $150.00 an hour, to be split between the two parties. Only the three of us and the mediator would be present for the mediation.
Because of family and work constraints, the soonest we would be able to set aside time for mediation would be in mid-March.
In regards to your pre condition for going into mediation, there seems to be some misunderstanding of what a cease and desist letter means legally.
The letter was not a suit that we had begun, it was simply a document stating that we retain our legal rights to take the next step if the defamation does not stop. A person can’t waive or retract their legal rights to seek redress if someone defames or libels you. The letter should not be viewed as a threat because as long as you refrain from defamation, there is nothing to worry about. The letter gave a clear example of the defamatory passage as determined by a lawyer (and you only need one example) and asked for specific actions. We are satisfied that you have stopped as requested. We will not be filing a suit at this time.
We hope that we can come to an arrangement that is mutually satisfactory for all of us and that we can meet in the future as colleagues with respect and good will. If you wish to respond to this letter through a third party, please feel free to do so.
Yours,
Halli Villegas and Myna Wallin
Looks to me a pretty satisfactory letter.
Perhaps now is as good a time as any to leave the three principals alone to iron out their differences in private without all the clamour.
Best luck with your silencing project, Naruda.
People will stop discussing public issues in public spaces when they get bored or reach consensus. Not on false pretexts like yours about “clamour”.
As for that letter looking satisfactory to you? Don’t just look at it. Read it.
Temper Temper Ralph.
Remember your blood pressure.
Thanks for caring, Max. But please remember this space is public. Wrong time and place for you mooning after people’s “blood pressure”.
Sorry Max. Check the title in case you forgot. The subject here is why and how ugly this small press book fair public spat has become.
Forgot to thank Hedwig for posting complete text of Myna’s public letter. Thanks, Hedwig.
Clearly, some will just look at the letter and get highly satisfied by it soon as noticing it comes from Myna. Those bothering actually reading it notice:
1. how Myna repeats her false and/or unsubstantiated accusation of Stuart
2. how Myna withdraws her threats to litigate just so long as Stuart never again does what he has falsely and/or without substantiation been accused by Myna of doing — like, she won’t sue if he never again does what he hasn’t done
3. how the rest of Myna’s letter is taken up with Myna’s calling for mediation as if she were the victim instead of the very public threatener of Ross
And, for completeness, here’s the latest public statement from Myna:
(quote) Johnny Burnaway and I are running away together to Mexico,
leaving poor Jan behind. In order to spare her any more pain than necessary, I will no longer be on the Lexiconjury list (unquote)
Now, I don’t know any these people personally. No clue whether “Burnaway” is a real name or merely long-standing posting alias at Lexiconjury. But. Whoever Myna is referring to and whatever private troubles of his Myna is insinuating. This is unbelievable. Even as a joke.
Even if Myna’s “only joking”. Joking like that coming from someone who so can’t take a joke as to threaten litigation against fair criticism? Saying anything that defamatory of people’s private relationships — by anyone that’s so falsely and/or without substantiation been publicly capering getting defamed?
Unbelievable. It’s has got to make one wonder whether Myna gets her legal advice from Max’s dentist.
Are we sure that Ralph isn’t a shill for Stuart?
C’mon Ralph.
What’s your real name.
And
My dentist wants to thank you for the free plug.
He’d even take YOUR case.
(And throw in a free filling)
Ralph,
I resent your insinuations that any comments I might have are part of what you call a “silencing project.”
I am not affiliated one way or another with any of the parties being discussed and for you to divine otherwise reeks of your own paranoia.
Further, I would point out that your shrill accusations do nothing to further small book fairs which I support.
If you really wanted to help the small book fair, by all means,get involved with the mediation or come up with constructive criticism addressed directly to the principals involved instead of airing your perceived injustices
like some angry child airing grievances for all to share in.
Max, I’m just another anonymous face on the internet. Just like you. Only difference being my posting on topic at the public space allocated for the topic. Whereas you seek changing the issue from why and how ugly this small press book fair public spat has become — to my personal real world identity. Honestly, Max — contain yourself. This is the wrong public time and place you getting so clutching personal.
Naruda, I do understand Maybe even somewhat sympathize. You have thin skin. You are very sensitive. So, having your February 22nd, 3:21 p.m. calls — for privacy and against “all the clamour” — mocked was too much for you. It made perfect sense, mocking your calling out against public discussion while at the public space dedicated to that discussion. But never mind making sense. You being so sensitive and all — it was too much for you. You were overcome by it.
But, Naruda? No way and no how did I “divine” anything whatsoever about your being “affiliated one way or another with any of the parties being discussed”. The reek you are smelling? It is entirely your own paranoia — not mine.
Because who you are affiliated with matters less to me than the nutritive value of any anonymous rat’s hindquarters. Like Max and like me, you are just another anonymous face on the internet. And you command no value in this public discussion other than by the substance of your posts.
That’s what I was ridiculing, Naruda. The (lack of) substance of your posts. And it was totally only your personal paranoia leaping to concluding I had “divined” your “affiliation”.
So. Naruda? Now that you’ve spilled how paranoid you are about the (il)legitimacy of your real life affiliation? Only now do I begin getting slightly curious who you really are.
Just slightly curious. Not even relevant to the (lack of) substance of your posts. Speaking of which? Good luck with your silencing project, Naruda. Because you’ll need more than luck silencing this public discussion at this public space dedicated to it. At the very least you’ll also need to get over your own paranoid “shrill accusations” backfiring on you so spectacularly.
All of which keeps begging and beggaring the question: when will you guys stop posting off topic? This thread isn’t about outing anonymous internet faces. It isn’t about your personal resentments. This here thread’s about why and how ugly this small press book fair public spat has become.
Poor Ralph no Ralph.
Engaging in any kind of meaningful dialogue only makes him feel threatened.
Why exchange ideas for the common good
When it’s much more pleasurable to point fingers and tear down.
Give up Naruda.
Ralph is too Obsessive Compulsive to ever play any role but self-righteous victim finding conspiracy behind every post.
Anyone can see who he really is.
Better to ignore his rants than feed them.
He prefers to hide behind his alias:
The Obscure Erostratus.
There’ll be more burning of bridges before he’s through.
Best leave him to pontificate
To the rest of the faceless.
Off-topic trolling momentarily dispersed. Returning us to thread subject.
Since the past day at lexiconjury,
1 Myna left the group, and,
2 There’s been plenty weird intense debating whether resolution ought get pursued publicly or privately.
Perhaps only to me, debating public versus private resolution seems very silly. There is no versus. These are separate animals. Beasts leading entirely separate lives, likely going separate ways.
At one extreme, private resolution could result simply from no private legal action ever getting brought. Would that mean public resolution would follow? Of course not.
At the other extreme, private resolution could result from the principals sharing genuine hugs. Would that mean the public issues that got raised could also be settled by hugging? Of course not. Issues are not physically huggable.
On distinguishing public from private, it follows pretty obviously that only the public issues are legitimate for public debating. So, I’d like to propose we try never mentioning the principals again. Whether by name or otherwise. Whether here or elsewhere. When in public, let’s stick to the public issues.
What are the public issues, though? Seems to me there’s just one. That when people go public, that’s not the time to play coy. In other words: ought not those making public accusations be fully prepared to publicly substantiate the accusations they’ve made?
As someone who Dana Samuel’s been impersonating recently (in the lexiconjury group) as part of this silly tickle-fight, let me just apologize for her behaviour.
I apologize for getting Dana started on this schtick of taking fake identities online. Me and her used to do that for fun on a BBS, long before the invention of teh intarwebz, back when she still had the chance of becoming a respectable graphic designer. We used to do this to stalk bearded 40-something men in chatrooms. It seems she’s parlayed our fun little hobby into arts grants and everything - I find that a hilarious commentary on the state of the Canadian arts scene, so good for her - but she forgot the cardinal rule of never taking an identity that’s traceable back to her. Especially taking the identity of me and then screwing with it.
As for the rest of you:
Shut the hell up. Just shut up. Shut the hell up. Your little bitch-slapping contest has now involved an innocent third party, and
As someone who Dana Samuel’s been impersonating recently (in the lexiconjury group) as part of this silly tickle-fight, let me just apologize for her behaviour.
I apologize for getting Dana started on this schtick of taking fake identities online. Me and her used to do that for fun on a BBS, long before the invention of teh intarwebz, back when she still had the chance of becoming a respectable graphic designer. We used to do this to stalk bearded 40-something men in chatrooms. It seems she’s parlayed our fun little hobby into arts grants and everything - I find that a hilarious commentary on the state of the Canadian arts scene, so good for her - but she forgot the cardinal rule of never taking an identity that’s traceable back to her. Especially taking the identity of me and then screwing with it.
As for the rest of you:
Shut the hell up. Just shut up. Shut the hell up. Your little bitch-slapping contest has now involved an innocent third party, and I’m a little fed up at getting my name dragged into this. As a good father would say: play nice or else.